As our podcast is releasing shortly, I’m pretty sure there are going to be some people who take issue with my comments regarding the story in MGS4 in the first two acts. So, let’s talk, you and I, about my real feelings about the game.
The most consistent complaint I hear about MGS4 is that the combat isn’t great, or that the gameplay isn’t nearly as engaging as the narrative. I disagree that these are the game’s weaknesses, for a couple of reasons. The first reason is, well, the combat doesn’t suck. In fact, for the first time in any of the Metal Gear games I’ve played, combat is a viable and compelling option almost all of the time. The guns all feel different, and the addition of Drebin’s store (available all of the time from the “Pause” menu) gives you the opportunity and means to use them as much as you like. Or so far it does anyway. The almost-immediate availability of a wide variety of hardware (including additional non-lethal weapons and ammunition and items) gives the game a vastly expanded set of options for tackling its challenges. Don’t want to kill anyone ever? You can buy more anesthetic ammunition, and even a sniper rifle to fire it for those long range shots. The first person view is, well, a little too “Doom” era for me, with the gun sprouting phallically from the middle of the screen and the iron sights blocking too much of the view; but I do use it from time to time, and it does what it needs to. Switching shoulders for the third person shooting feels organic and useful, and turning the aiming sensitivity way down (due to my abnormally muscular thumbs, I tend to push the Dualshake’s thumbsticks too far) gave me reasonably responsive controls.
I would actually go so far as to say that Metal Gear Solid 4 has the best shooting mechanics of any Japanese developed title this generation. The only other game that comes close is Lost Planet. I’ll let you judge for yourself whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but I enjoyed Lost Planet, so there you go.
The second reason why the gameplay is not MGS4′s weak link (I mentioned it way back there) is that the story is goddamned awful. It’s a failure as a narrative in almost every way, save for giving excellent fan service for those who have devoured every bit of Metal Gear lore over the last 20 years. While much has been made over its purported social commentary, that aspect is very weak, and not particularly original. The use of private entities in war dates back thousands of years, and includes King George’s contracts to German nobles employing Hessian regiments in the American Revolutionary War. The torturously drawn-out exposition regarding technology and its effect on war and society is a slight variance of the same post-atomic anxiety omnipresent in Japanese pop culture since Godzilla, and it’s already been done better; the manga and anime Akira explore the horrors of an oppressive government and the consequences of science run amok amidst the innocent, and the manga and anime Ghost in the Shell had one of the few genuinely interesting explorations of the nature of humanity when science treads too far into physiology (although even Ghost in the Shell owes a hell of a debt to Neuromancer, which predates it by almost a decade).
Amidst these more interesting explorations of the same themes with much more successful results, I find myself wondering what was really on Kojima’s mind while he was writing the story for MGS4, other than freeing himself from the tangled web of two decades of extremely convoluted continuity by wrapping up all the loose ends he could. The only remaining theme the game keeps coming back to is that of human obsolescence. Is MGS4 really about Kojima feeling himself and the Japanese development community becoming marginalized amidst the growing influence and technological sophistication of western developers? Or did Kojima just really, really need an editor? Auteurs with expansive fictional realities often do best when their overall vision is executed by another party, one who can be respectful but maintain enough detachment to note where things need to be pulled back.
But, in the interest of fairness, I’m only halfway-ish through the game, so things could pull out of their sea of meandering exposition and really turn into something special. And there have been some very badass moments in the story thus far. I just wish that I had played them, rather than watched them. Either way, I’ll post my final thoughts once I finish the game proper.
I think what bothered me the most is that so many people played MGS4 as a straight shooter and missed out on what a great stealth game it was. It was so much fun to scout out with the mark 2 and learn the enemy locations and walking patterns, then go back and navigate it as snake with out ever being noticed.
I disagree. The story is far from perfect. But it is still one of the best this year and is very entertaining from a simple minded perspective. The story has just as many faults as GTA’s did and neither shouldn’t be considered the GREATEST EVAR! But I believe they deserve respect for trying in an area that a lot of Triple A titles really don’t (i.e. Gears of War, Halo).
I think MGS4 is one of the greatest games this past year for its great combination of story and playability. The production values leave too many people expecting way more than what is possible.
The reason it isn’t my Game of the Year is because of the amount of cutscenes versus gameplay. That is something to complain about.
(Of course this is all just my opinion, not supposed to be taken that I truly think that you should change your mind cause you’re wrong or anything…)
Oh, ha, in the first little section of my above comment it should be “should” not “shouldn’t”.
Could you guys add an edit feature to your comments section someday?
Hey guys, it seems the New 1up Show (CO-OP by area5) wont make the front page of DIGG,
I resubmitted it ,it has been at least 10-12 hours later since this story has been first submitted!
I submitted this story:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172403
so click the digg button @1up hopefully giving them traffic too.
PS. if your a new digger, DONT digg plz, dont sign up to digg the story, because it keeps getting buried due to new users. (they think someones gaming the system)
I just wish i had a ps3 so i could experience the game, more then just videos
where is the podcast at I need it!
I also disagree with what you said about story, but I do agree it’s a little too massive and does need editing. ‘Goddamned awful’ seems a bit harsh though. I always saw what the story meant was really mirrored by Snake’s characterization. And the character struggle throughout all the games have always been more interesting and enjoyable than the social commentary. But I don’t know, the concept of Outer Haven and the idea of a soldier’s loyalty and individuality have always been the constant themes more than what MGS4 brought up about Mercs–SOP?. There’s also the idea of globalization’s effect the ‘war economy’–Drebin is enough example of that. Playing through all the games and finishing with the fourth, I really liked how everything was tied up–I thought it was intelligent fan service, myself. Anyway, good write up and I whole heartily agree with your points on the combat.
I’m with you on this. The game never lets up with the the cliches and exposition to allow mood or themes to develop. The dialogue spills out either with blunt statements or cringe inducing platitudes. Normally I wouldn’t hammer a game for this, but, since the game sells itself on its cinematic sensibilities–which is apparently code for every shot beginning with a sweep past someone’s ass or crotch, and a hefty dose of side-boob. The game forces you to treat it as you would a film, and in my mind it compares to Battlefield Earth.
Oddly enough, I just finished Uncharted which is also a mess, but I found I didn’t care much since the game rarely dwelt much on its convoluted plot.
I tuned out of MGS when Ric Flair showed up to tell me he’s my mom.
I think the story was just as good as the average action game. The main problem may have been the presentation of the story. The motion capture actions and dialogue were usually horribly cheesy/overly dramatic. And yes at certain conversations a editor would have been helpful, but I feel it was mostly at codec extras (like the beauty and beast death stories told by drebin.) I wonder how much direction of co-director Shuyo Murata had versues Kojima.
Fascinating article, Artie! I’ve thoroughly enjoyed your impressions of both Mirror’s Edge and MGS4. I haven’t played either (yet), but MGS4 is winking at me from behind it’s film of shrink wrap (got it in my PS3 bundle), and one day I may play it out of curiosity despite the fact I only ever made it about 6 hours into MGS1 before losing interest.
Your comment about “Auteurs with expansive fictional realities” is so spot on that I feel like standing to applaud.
Loving the podcasts, and if your articles on Eat.Sleep.Game are consistently as good as this one, the 1UPocalypse may have a good side after all. Kudos!
I really wish I’d used correct usage of “its” instead of “it’s” in my previous comment.
The gamer + grammar/punctuation geeks of the internet compel you to add an ‘Edit’ button!
I do wish you hadn’t written this article as it appears like you want to qualify what you said on podcast instead of just sticking to what you stated.
The nature of private armies isn’t a new one; nor would I claim that lovers of MGS4 or MGS4 itself tried to proclaim that the notion of PMCs was unique to our times or the reality created in the Metal Gear Series. I would then say your reference to mercenaries is a redundant point.
However, not that you’ve changed your stance by much, I didn’t think you needed to provide this cavaet in order to avoid any backlash. I do disagree with your sentiments but I understand why you have such reservations.
On a related note, I’m really enjoying the podcasts.
I also agree with the edit button sentiment!
MGS4′s story is schlocky but enjoyable. It’s true that the themes are heavy-handed, but not really more than your typical comic book or anime. It’s more about the over-the-top-ness, the melodrama. Kojima does need an editor, though. And MGS3 is far superior when it comes to melodrama, though. I imagine it’d be painful to play it after playing MGS4, though.
I LOVED this game after the first two acts and thought it would be at the top of my ‘best games ever pile’
The next three acts sure were a good film…. but where the feck was the game!!!! Seriously, one more act where you are in the battlefield between 4 & 5 would have been enough. And dont get me started on the “oh cool im running from geckos” level… that lasts 20 seconds.
Really could have been the best but that sours it for me.
If you had played the cinematic moments a la Half-Life 2, you wouldn’t be seeing what the director wants you to be seeing, and you probably wouldn’t feel more immersed either (on the contrary, jumping around like an idiot and knocking computers over while people were having one-sided conversations with me was the opposite of immersion).
My only advice is to wait for it later in the game. There will always be the heavy cut-scenes later in the game, some great to watch, some boring as hell. But further in the game, there are far more examples of interactive story telling. Be it a particularly unconventional boss battle, or a harrowing escape, story is told through the actions of the player in ways that I’ve never felt so gripping or personally involved in a video game before… of course, you might not care if you’re spending too much time dwelling on how badly you want the cut scenes to end.
What kept me from finishing MGS4 was just the frustrating pace of the game. Play for 10-15 minutes, watch for 20-30 minutes, etc. It just got old really quick for me, which is a damn shame because I agree with you that the actual playable segments are really well done, and while the story segments are interesting to look at, the plot for any MGS game has never really struck a chord within me and MGS4 is no different. Oh well.
Very well done and highly polished game overall, just not for me.
I completely disagree. MGS4 was the most fun I had playing a game in 08, and I played most of the big releases in 08. No amount of over analyzing it or mocking it will change my mind. I just liked it, I liked the story, I LOVED the game play. I completely disagree that the game play is bad. It allows you to tackle tasks in different ways, and I love games that offer that up as an option. I tend to use a mixure of ways to get through it then, which is ultimately very satisfying for me.
The first 3 acts were, in my opinion, the most entertaining of the bunch. If you hate the story, it’s all downhill from here.
I’m glad someone who has a voice that can reach people inside and outside the industry is actually stating the truth and not just giving in to the hype. I’ve been a long time MGS fan and honestly, the story in MGS4 was terrible to say the least. While I can give Kojima some credit for trying to tie up all the loose ends, I’d also like to give him an editor. While I did enjoy the game overall, I can easily say it was the most disappointing game in 2008 for me. MGS3 in my mind still reigns supreme as the best game in the series. From story to boss battles to music, it was superior in every way that counts. Graphics and technology don’t make a great game.
MGS’s greatest flaw may be that so many fans, like myself, are willing to overlook a few quirks in order to champion a series that has such a unique voice within the realm of gaming, and constantly strives to push the medium forward. I always find the gameplay, environments, and characters in Metal Gear to be compelling, but each new MGS iteration takes chances, for better or worse. I agree that the cutscenes could have used some editing and that the fundamental story doesn’t break much new ground when you hold it up to film and literature, but the very fact that you’d compare it to those things is encouraging. Beyond that, I think Kojima deserves some credit for not recycling the same story with subtle changes (like Zelda – of which I’m a fan for different reasons). All that being said, I’m excited that MGS’s slate has been cleared; it’ll be exciting to see what new creations are in store from Kojima and his team without the burden of game content from the 90’s.
Thanks for sharing your honest and respectable opinions. I do hope you enjoy the rest of the game!
It was really interesting listening to someone else’s thoughts on this game, it sounds like your coming up to the part where I kind of fell off the MGS4 gravy train. Before anyone starts, I’m well aware that it just wasn’t for me
Full thoughts at http://midlifegamer.net/2008/12/30/4-years-in-the-making-6-months-of-waiting-10-hours-of-playing-and-i-can’t-stand-metal-gear-solid-4/
I definitely liked the play mechanics, and anything that opens up the game to a wider base of players is a good thing. It just lets you play the way you want.
I didn’t play the first in the series because I could never get the hang of the aiming. I really wanted to like that game. However, in the sequel, they introduced a first person aiming mechanic in addition to the mode from the previous game. This difference made me able to enjoy a game that used to seem impossible to me. I’m very thankful that a GameCube remake saw release as I could now enjoy a game that everyone around me had already enjoyed.
As an aside, RE4 did the same thing, I really could NOT play RE 0 – 3. I knew how to move my character around, but I could not aim at something I couldn’t see as I was backing away, and I couldn’t shoot at the part of the zombie I wanted to accurately. I was just frustrated. RE4 made me love a series I used to loathe.
Getting back to Metal Gear Solid 4, this was the first game that made me feel like stepping up to the new generation was worth it. Kojima put together a game that wasn’t possible on previous systems. That sounds pretty tacky but trust me, it’s very appropriate. The sheer amount of things going on at once, all of the soldiers and enemy vehicles, the superior artificial intelligence, the vast environment around you, the amount of control and view options, all of the weapons at your disposal, the quality audio mix, and huge scripted events that happen in the middle of it all just take the “movie game” concept to the next level.
You will feel completely immersed and blown away, and if it doesn’t scream past the experience the first time you played the MGS2 Tanker demo, it will at least grip you in the same way, and never let go until the end.
This game is a masterpiece, painstakingly crafted, and it will show in every single piece that makes up one of the most thrilling experiences you can have right now. The little capsules of scene-specific gameplay are so well thought out and are so appropriate. It’s pure genius.
Now, having played other MGS games, I expected long cutscenes. I really didn’t mind them, and they were very well crafted, acted, and spoken. You really can’t say that about many games. To have such a masterful campaign married with the best cutscenes around in games bar none, they’re just trying to provide the complete package. It would seem out of place if these sequences weren’t there and you were instead faced with the same phony briefing and “mission complete” screens as every other game. If you don’t like the story, skip it, but you’re really missing out if you pass up this game altogether. Personally I thought it complemented the game very well, and even though I’m not into the whole backstory at the same level as some others, I could still appreciate the tale of a dying man whose fate is sealed, and as what seems like a conspiracy is trying to bring him down, and even if he might not be able to trust all of his friends, he is still trying to do his best and do the right thing, against all odds. This game just seals Snake as one of the most badass heroes ever that you can’t help but love.
MGS 4 is at times the best game in the world and at others a total groan fest.
I hate to get into many of my complaints till you finish the game, but I will tell you now that the last few hours of the game were completely a wasteed opportunity (to me at least).
I wish someone had the balls to tell Kojima that the game he was making could use some more sculpting to keep the narrative from spiraling in too many directions.
I appreciate that he took an ‘everything… even the kitchen sink approach(or cooking sunny side up eggs in this case)”- but there was simply too much exposition and too little actual game playing for my taste.
Thinking back to moments that were simply glorious in MGS 4 almost always brings up memories of completely wasted time spent with the controller sitting in my lap.
I hate to even think about the ultimate meeting with Ocelot. I thought I was a huge fan of the series, but apparently nostalgia is not enough for me to forgive some of the mis-steps in MGS 4.
MGS 4 simply makes me bipolar. I love it… but it also fucking sucks!
this games story stumbles into the same pitfall Matrix series did.
Dont get me wrong it is a great game but most of the time it felt like the great gameplay was overshadowed by too many cinematics.
I see where you’re coming from on the story…I liked it but I consider myself biased as a huge MGS Fan. That instantly discredits me from bias thought, honestly. In the best attempt I can go for; I’d have to say that the story is a product of the normal anime/Japanese story telling. If you’re fond of convoluted, overly twisted and downright fucking insane story lines, it works. I mean, the standard anime/comic book geek[I.E.; Me] can sit through this stuff and not blink, but we’re also used to bullshit like Superman “dying” 50 times a decade. I think it all boils down to ones tolerance of that sort of thing.
My problem with the story is that I respect the effort to say something about PMC’s and the industrial military complex, but the overly-convoluted story line and sci-fi elements weaken the message. The Metal-Gear world does not fosters those messages well, and the story that is clearer would have made the political commentary much more poignant.
On top of that, the over-reliance on cut scenes and dialog to tell the story is a pet-peeve of mine. Take the deadly beauties. It would have been a great experience to play through traumatic life stories from their perspective, as oppose to having Drebin just telling you.
Also, I have to say that going into MGS4, I had avoided all game coverage. I knew I was going to buy the game, and I didn’t want to ruin the experience, I wanted to go in fresh. I avoided all news stories, trailers, screenshots, previews, everything in the podcasts, whatever.
I didn’t hear about the long cutscenes or anything about the story, the only thing I knew was that Snake was dying and that’s it. I really wasn’t disappointed with the game. When I started playing MGS2 I certainly didn’t expect a bizarre story and but didn’t really bother me then either because I was having fun with the game. I don’t take the stories too seriously, this isn’t a movie, it’s a game after all. The story got out of hand and was difficult to keep up with at times but I appreciated what it was trying to do and I didn’t really start groaning at it because nobody had ever tried to put this much into a game anymore, and there wasn’t really much to compare it to. Going into MGS4 I expected something bizarre and complicated, and I was just along for the ride.
I definitely wasn’t disappointed as the game never lets up, it’s always suspenseful and there’s always some new gameplay element they throw at you, even if it’s just to break up the sneaking action, although each one is very well crafted and fine tuned. Even if the story gets a little out there sometimes, there are still jokes or references to enjoy, or just something cool to look at, and the game itself doesn’t let you down. Just don’t take it too seriously, it’s not a huge epic profound movie quadrilogy, it’s just dressed up like one.
The gameplay itself is very deep and even if you can race through the game, that’s not the point. There are different difficulty levels to master, and unlike other games that are just designed to be brutal, there are so many ways you can approach the problem and the enemy A.I. responds so well that it’s actually interesting to build your own strategies and try them out. There are different objectives and tons of easter eggs to find. It’s also interesting to just mess around in the different scenarios and see what you can do. The game is so deep and well crafted that I wouldn’t fault it for being short.
At a time where my pile of shame is building up and there are so many games that I can’t find the time to finish them all, I’m glad that I could finish this one yet still wanted to put off others just to go back and try a different approach in this one.
No it really wont get better. The first 2 acts are by far the best, it mostly turn into drivel after that…specifically the 3rd act. None of the games have been as gripping since the first metal gear solid, not the story nor the gameplay. The presentation in 4 is excellent, but far too often it takes control from you at the very moment you want it.
The game is a A+ (10) but drops a letter grade (3 points) for every game in the series that u didn’t play lol
[I] agree almost 100%. Once again a new Metal Gear game is released and everyone praises it for it’s depth of story and awesome stealth game play. Uhh…the story has always been Goddamn awful and the game play, while improved for “western audiences” a bit, still plays like a broken PS1 game. I went through MGS and liked it fine. I was way into the hype for MGS2 and couldn’t play through all of the second half. I stopped playing 3 after about three minutes. I have advanced through almost half of 4 and like it just a hint more than 3. I want to ask Konami to please stop allowing this over blown and absolutely silly exposition to stop once and for all. It’s not deep, it’s convoluted. It’s not introspective, it’s just long. Really, MGS needs to stop.
Just finished act II and into act III. I am completely satisfied with my MGS experience so far.
I have to say, after mediocre iterations on the PS2, MGS4 I feel brings it back to the roots of the PS1 version. The controls finally feel as tight as the PS1 version. But has the updated polish you’d expect from a new console version.
Maybe I am enjoying MGS4 because I disliked both PS2 games so much. I only played the first broken version of MGS3 and didn’t finish it. And MGS2 sported Raiden, which was a huge disappointment. And MGS is one of my most beloved franchises.
MGS4 is fantastic. The combat is fantastic. The story is out there and peppered with anime references, which is what I expect from Kojima. I am waiting for some Kojima moments (i.e. Pyscho Mantis boss battle from MGS1, or having the game talk to me and tell me I’ve been playing too long from MGS2)
All in all I am glad to finish the metal gear saga on a high note.
thanks for the review and the excellent podcast!
Metal Gear Solid 4 is, as you said, a game made for fanboys of the Metal Gear Solid series.
I know this because I’ve not played the previous MGS games and I tried out MGS4 on the suggestion of the guys at Giant Bomb. I then spent the entire game’s storyline wondering why I should give a crap about these characters and never really got a satisfactory answer. Your description of the fighting is pretty much spot on; competent but not really good.
So what we have is a game whose storyline can’t seem to give me a reason to care, given to me in cut scenes far too long. Cut scenes that interrupt a combat system that’s tolerable at best. And then, kicking me while I’m down, the game tosses a frustrating boss battle that assume I have knowledge not given to me in the course of the game to beat it and half an hour of weeping over a character dying who I really WANTED to see dead.
I’m happy to all of you people who enjoyed this game as a bookend to your decades long experience but as a game standing all by itself Metal Gear Solid 4 absolutely blows.
The (good?) thing about MGS4 is that it’s perfectly okay to not like it. It’s not a game for everyone. That doesn’t mean it’s some sort of acquired taste that only supreme gamers can appreciate. It’s just different.
I actually played through all of the previous MGS games just a couple of weeks before MGS4 was released so my experience was really concentrated and amazingly satisfying right up until the end. That said, I do not expect everyone to have the same experience or even the same taste in games.
I still think you should try to finish it, but if you don’t like it, that’s fine by me.
I watched my friend play this game, so I can only comment from a story standpoint. To me the game had that kind of weird labored exposition you saw in most anime films… or the newer star wars movies… or later matrix films, that just seemed like the story was more of an afterthought than anything. I am told if you’re a real metal gear fan this game is a perfect loose end tie-er up-er, but I guess I’m not.
For the most part I felt like I was reading Hideo Kojima’s creepy diary, full of weird women issues and god who knows what else.
I think I just don’t get Metal Gear.
I agree whole-heartedly with your views on MGS4. I played this game through in August of 2008 and although I still think it’s an amazing achievement, the storytelling was tedious and by far the weak point of the experience.
Personally, I wish that Kojima would have split the project in two. With one half he could have made a solid 10 hour game with no tedious exposition. With the other half he could have made a 90 minute film that rounded off his universe and gave the die-hard fans what they wanted (enabling the rest of us to avoid it).