That’s right, questions. This week we’re going to mix it up and cover a few topics during our middle segment, and we want your input/thoughts/rants/mumblings about them. This week we’ll be covering three topics, courtesy of some of our listeners on Twitter:
What are your thoughts on the idea that Activision and EA have switched places, with Activision taking on the role of pariah amongst the more enthusiast gaming audience? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
How do you think shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks will affect games and gaming this year? How will finances affect you as a gamer in particular?
What are your thoughts on used games? How do you feel about Gamestop, Amazon, and Toys R’ Us and their respective used game strategies?
And we may or may not get to this one: Describe your sex lives in three Pokemon moves.
Hey, these were your ideas people. Anyway! Fire away. The cut-off for comments will be around 3:00 PM Pacific time Wednesday afternoon.
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The first person to end their Pokemon Sex Life with “It’s Super Effective” needs some sort of slanderous badge.
Squirtle uses Rain Dance!
Miltank is confused!
It’s super effective!
It’s like Activision discovered cocaine (cocaine being the figurative symbol for the action of rehashing) and when they tried it the first time, they liked it and decided to do it more. They like it so much that they turn to deceiving friends and family for capital gain to buy more cocaine. Eventually, they’re going to reach a plateau and that cocaine is going to run out.
Also, I don’t know Pokemon moves, but I would start with giving my girl a Cubone, then Lickitung her cooch, and finally Squirtle all over her face.
I think that EA is now becoming a company that can understand what the enthusiast gamer wants; variety and quality. Sure they make sports games year after year, but at his point, they have to. What would happen to EA if Madden doesn’t come out in some form year after year? Looking back at this past year, there were many games that caught my attention; Mirrors Edge and Dead Space. Both those games are not without their flaws but you can definitely commend them on trying something new and much needed. Not to mention what they will be doing this year with Brutal Legends, Burnout Paradise DLC and The Rock Band Beatles game. I think this year is going to be another great year for games from EA.
Activision on the other hand, is the exact opposite. This past year it was news story and news story of Activision abandoning development because they couldn’t milk said game. That does not show good faith to gamers. At least the games that they abandoned went to good homes! Also, this year seems like it’s going to be the worst year yet of them milking the cash cow! I mean, come on people, how many editions of Guitar Hero do we need every year! It’s going to be interesting to see how long milking franchises will be viable. It’s just a matter of time before some of past favorites will get the Tony Hawk treatment, and frankly at this point, i think some of them should be taken out, ol yeller style….
EA and Activision’s perceived position changes mask an underlying emphasis at EA on in house game development. With this in house emphasis EA is able to react more quickly to market pressures at this juncture to produce more enthusiast games along with their ‘shovel-ware’. Activision retains a smaller in house element and therefore must rely on outside developers for higher risk ventures such as these enthusiast pleasing games. This of course only applies at this juncture, as any move by either of these two heavyweights forces the hand of the other in an attempt to either choose the competition with in a current market segment option or finding a rival niche option. Thank you game theory.
And My sex life in 3 pokemon moves
1.) Attrack
2.) Baton Pass
3.) Feint
Oh and my pokemon sex scene would go something like this, in order :
Harden
Bone Rush
Head Smash
Discharge
String Shot
Splash (Nothing happens)
1) Girl uses “Serial Monogamy”.
*Three Years Later*
2) The effect wore off, Aimes is no longer confused!
3) Girl commences fornication of nearest friend of Aimes. *Aimes feinted*
Just a thought about the used game industry…
I wonder if any game retailers have ever considered the following strategy:
–>approach major game publisher
–>retailer offers some percentage of used game profits of said publisher’s games to said publisher (say, 10%?)
–>in exchange, retailer secures exclusive game promotions with said publisher (say, exclusive additional content or exclusive one-day early release before full release with other retailers?)
–>repeat with other major game publishers
Kudos to the retailer that’s gutsy enough to try this out, considering it would be guaranteed to spark a healthy amount of controversy from all sides.
Thanks for a great podcast, guys!
As a comment on this, I would much much rather see retailer exclusivity over console exclusivity. As a PS3 owner it is extremely frustrating to not be able to play DLC on two of my favorite games of 2008. As someone who is a fan and as someone who bought their product in support of them, it’s still a huge slap in the face to me, even if I know their reasons it doesn’t make me any happier.
If anything, shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks should improve games in the coming year.
On one hand, the big game companies will be more conservative about the content they release but also be focused on produce high quality games that deserve to make money instead of quick crap-ware games just to try to bank on movies, etc. that people wont buy because they can’t afford to even buy games.
On the other hand, the big companies will take hits. So this is a chance for smaller independent game developers to create new cheap innovative games for Wii-Ware, PSN, Xbox Live, cellphones, or Steam.
With the economy change, gamers won’t be able to afford the Crysis Gaming PCs, and will fall back to more affordable and playable games like Cave Story, etc. for their gaming fix.
An unfortunate side to this is that many of these independent game ideas that sprout up could have been improved by a 6 man developer team. We will just have to settle with a lone teenage flash programmer in his basement.
As for the cutbacks and how it will affect gaming this year:
I think game studios are going to find themselves cutting a lot of unneeded “talents.”
I think celebrity voice overs will be going out the window. Ive always wondered how many people a Delta Burke voice pushes over the line to purchasing a game. It seems that this can be cut completely and not affect a game whatsoever.
Other things to go would be a lot of licenses. to much money is paid for a name, and often to no effect. While star wars will always sell, how much will a “saw” license push people to purchase a game over any other survival horror game?
Another, and more serious thing: Game cancellations will rise. Studios will continue to close. If you didnt make deadline after deadline on your last project, you will not get another one any time soon. If you are on a project and youre missing your deadlines, you no longer work on this game, if it remains a game at all. I think companies will cut any floundering games in production much quicker.
Used games have been catching on for a few reasons:
1.)Quick way to get credit for more games
2.)Can get cash since gamestop has offered that
3.)10 year olds who want to buy every new pokemon game
Yeah I’ve also wondered why one of the retailer’s didn’t try to work with the publishers. I think it would be cool if you trade in a game to Best Buy, Best Buy ships it to the Publisher, Publisher resurfaces and repackages game, then ships it back to Best Buy as a certified used game or some shit (sealed with new manual and new dlc codes or whatever like what gears2 came with), then when Best Buy sales the game the Publisher gets a cut. It’s probably not cost effective but something along those lines might work and would get a lot more gamers into witch ever retailer did it.
P.S I hope you guys don’t take this religion shit serious, the last thing we need is some crappy focus tested podcast for everyone. Keep being yourselves and we will keep listening!!!
The CEO of Activision said something to the effect of “We aren’t interested in game franchises that we can’t exploit annually”. I remember explicitly him using the world “exploit”. Activision is the devil. Guitar Hero 666.
No matter what year it is I’m broke. I’m a poor college student at SFSU, but I will always find money for video games whether I have to beg, borrow, or steal.
I think they are more afraid of the idea than the actual reality of used games. The number 1 used game you will see at Gamestop is Grand Theft Auto IV. My local Gamestop has like 30 used copies. Is anyone going to argue that used game sales hurt GTAIV? Hell, they just announced it sold 13 million copies. The more popular and better selling a game is, the more used copies of it you will see. Just like movies, and books.
As for Pokemon moves…
Charm
Frustration
Last Resort
quick attack
waterpulse
confusion
My thoughts on Used Games:
I’m for them. I know that a lot of people are vehemently against used games because they want to support the industry, but honestly, as consumers there’s nothing wrong with being solely interested in getting the best deal.
Publishers need to a) lower the price of new games to the point where used copies aren’t as enticing (Steam’s amazing weekend sales come to mind, and those don’t even HAVE resale value), or b) keep coming up with irresistible pre-order bonuses and unique unlock-codes for DLC that only come with new purchases.
Instead of whining and moaning and lobbying to Congress, work with me; make it worth my while.
The whole “EA and Activision” thing has a couple troubling facts to clutter up the discussion.
Firstly, Activision, the publicly traded company which exists to make money for it’s shareholders, posted a net profit for last year, despite it’s habit of churning out sequels and dropping interesting new IP in favor of safer investments.
EA, also a publicly traded company who turned over some kind of ‘new IP leaf’ with titles like Mirror’s Edge, Dead Space, and Spore, lost money like a mother fucker.
In fact, Activision was one of the very very few big publishers to actually MAKE money last year; apparently they are the only company who understands that ‘profit’ is more desirable than ‘gross revenue’. Take Two, as another example, just posted a loss of fifty million, despite sales of thirteen million copies of GTA 4. Way to go.
We ‘hardcore’ gamers may call shenanigans on Activision dropping Brutal Legend or churning out SKU after SKU of Guitar Hero spin-offs, but it doesn’t matter one tiny bit. No one is going to cancel their WoW account over it, no one is going to boycott the next Call of Duty game, and I know plenty of people who’ve already pre-ordered Guitar Hero Metallica, God help them.
Second, the weird categorization of companies into a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ tier is pretty ridiculous. EA decided to try out some new IP in an attempt to rake in as much of our money as they possibly could. It’s not like green lighting Dead Space and other new IP was some sort of selfless, gracious act of financial seppuku. They were trying to earn some profit, or failing that, more gross revenue, God help them. Activision, despite the public antics of Bobby Kotick, has apparently taken the more successful approach to business, and their share holders are reaping the rewards.
A better question to ask might be: “Does it really matter in what esteem gamers hold Activision and EA, outside of a podcast or forum discussion?” If it really bothers people so much, they should do more than complain. Don’t buy the next Call of Duty. Cancel your WoW account. Buy Warhammer AoR and Battlefield: Bad Company instead. No? I didn’t think so, because that’s exactly what they didn’t do, and never mind internet rhetoric and forum bullshit.
So, to summarize my crazy gibberish, I don’t care either way about the ‘public face’ of either Activision or EA. Both companies provided me with excellent games last year, and looking at upcoming release lists, it appears that they’re going to do the same this year. As long as both companies remain healthy and keep the quality up, I couldn’t care less about how they ‘look’ to the average internet user.
(I’m not really as grumpy as that comment indicates, folks. I love the show, keep it up, and if anyone feels like throwing down on some Street Fighter IV or HD Remix on PSN/XBL, give me a shout.)
Pokemon Sexbananza:
1) Nick Suttner using Squirtle over everything.
2) Aurther Gies chooses a Lickitung because of it’s 6inches of love.
3) Anthony Gallegos gets raped in the bum from Meowth because he loves cats.
I guess Pillip is saved because there are only 3 options… nope, he gets ganged by Bulbasaur’s tentacles, 1000 Pikachus, and a Mewtwo.
Who’s been telling you about how many inches of love I have? Also, holy hell. Replies work.
Here’s a pic I drew that describes 5 seconds before the above happens (I gave up after an hour):
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7207/esgpokemon.png
Sorry for the small balls Anthony…
WOOOOAHHHH.
The video game industry hates me.
I will but a new game I am excited for, but if it doesn’t captivate me or I don’t think I am going to replay it, I will trade the game in or sell it on eBay. And if there is a game I missed, I will try to find it used before I buy it new. And once I finish with it, I will trade it in or eBay it.
So from that perspective, I am glad someone is finally stepping up and challenging the very successful (and slightly weasely) business practices of Gamestop. My hope is that competition in this sector will make sellers play more for my used games and sell me there used games for less.
Personally I am sick of developers and publishers whining about how much the used game market cuts into their numbers. First, me buying a used game is no guarantee that I would have bought a new copy instead, a fact that is often lost on game companies. Second, I can buy used books, CD’s, DVD’s, cars, etc. with none of the profits going back to the original creators or distributors. Why should my games be different?
Maybe I am taking too extreme a pro-consumerist position, but games are expensive. If a publisher wants me to shell out my cash for a new copy of the game, the package should be worthwhile (buying a digital copy, great limited editions or pre-order bonuses, day-1 hype) and if the developer wants to keep my game off the market, they should give me a compelling reason to keep it (good dlc, multiplayer, or just a game thats good enough to want to play through a second time).
Pokemon sex descriptions… pass the brain bleach please.
I think consequences of cutbacks and the recession may not be as clear cut as people think. Game have such long development cycles, that it will really start effecting the games of 2011. Triple A titles in development now probably fixed their budgets at the start of the project.
My biggest fear – lack of patch support. Especially now the PS3 and Xbox 360 require patches almost as much as the PC. Patches are in the column of ‘Does not make money’ on the finance guy’s spreadsheet. If Relic’s Company of Heroes : Tales of Valor comes out with broken multiplayer balance, and we have to wait months and months for a patch, that is gonna be a real kick in the nuts. (aside: I don’t think this will happen, just using it as an example. Go Go Relic Balance Team!)
Pokemon seks moves:
1.Vicegrip
2.Hydro-pump
3.Withdraw
1)Sneak attack 2)Sneak attack 3)Sneak attack
Activision/EA: Somebody’s gotta be the bad guy. Just like EA, it’ll come back to bite Activision in the ass. Hopefully they’ll learn from their mistakes at that time.
Economy: I don’t think we’ll see the effects of the economy this year in terms of the types of games being released, considering how long development takes. A few titles we don’t even know about will be canceled or postponed. I think that’s it.
Used games: Buying a used video game is just as damaging to the industry as illegally downloading a video game.
Per the question on used games. I think it’s a total rip-off, but that’s because the consumer takes it. In general, I think it’s just what happens in a free-market. It’s good for gaming because more people can play at a discount. In my honest opinion, if publishers think they’re not getting enough sales, then they need to (1) make better product and (2) keep things cost-effective, so things can sell for less.
Overall, competition (even just for price) is a good thing. Makes piracy less compelling when something is available for cheap, and makes a new game purchase attractive to know it has resale value after you’ve played it to death.
With the economy in the shitter and it only sinking deeper as far as projected, I think there’s going to be two big things with games.
One, games are going to be optimized a lot more, which is a trend we’re already seeing with short, high quality packages of games like Mirror’s Edge that are relatively dense compared to the way games used to be. Studios that blow tons of money on stuff are probably going to be hurting because they’ll need to adapt to a new way of making games have more content rather than more meaningless flash to them. After a bit of an adaptive period games should get better because of a “less is more” stance that will be taken. Areas like writing, that wouldn’t take a whole lot of money to improve on, will prosper. I figure after a bit when the economy gets better, all the bottled up creative energy supressed due to budget constraints will explode like an artistic hemorrhage.
Second, digital distribution being pushed due to necessity. Doing things digitally just makes so much sense if you’re attempting to cut down on portions of the budget. There are already several market places that content can uploaded to so there isn’t a need to create a whole new system. Fewer middle men in the way of shipping will lead to lower overhead for the companies. The only real bottleneck would be internet capability (more specifically people who can’t access or have slow internet), and while I can’t see all games going fully digital, I expect a lot more games to be distributed only digitally.
I think this year both of them will be back to their evil ways for a more reliable income. I think we’ll see less or no new IP’s from either publisher. It’s just not worth the risk anymore.
The only thing that’s keeping EA less hateful is the fact that their “partners” program puts the development of games with Dice, Criterion, Harmonix and other reliable names with EA taking some of the credit because their logo is on the box.
As for my moves:
1)Harden
2)Withdraw
3)Splash
For me as a gamer, I’m definitely spending less on games. I’m digging more into what’s available on demos, what’s available for free on the web (downloadable or flash-based), and generally exploring the cheaper options that I didn’t check out before. It’s a different experience, sure, but in general, it’s comparable in terms of enjoyment. And honestly, there’s too many games out there (meaning indie and pro, free and paid, etc.) for anyone to play in a lifetime anyway, so why stick to one thing alone? Variety *is* the spice of life. And he who controls the spice, controls-oh, sorry there.
I personally do not buy used games unless it is something I can’t find elsewhere. Gamestop does not offer impulse buys anymore either as Steam has seemed to take that role: example, Unreal Tournament 3 for $11.99 two days ago. The last used game I believed I purchased was when I worked at Gamestop and brand new copies of Ico and both Katamari games came in. Since older games automatically went to used SKUs after a certian time, they were supposed to be “gutted” and then stickered to hell to show they were used. I totally bought them, still in wrap.
Pokemon moves?
1.) Bulk Up 2.) Thunder Punch 3.) Eruption
Also, has anyone played Watchmen The End is Nigh? I bought it, beat it in about 1.5 hours and was pissed I wasted $19.99. Looks pretty and is fun for about 20 min, but that’s it. I kept wishing they made an open world detective type game with Rorschach which mixed brawling and an old school Lucas Arts adventure game.
I actually work for Game Crazy (which is just like a Game Stop, only it’s owned by Movie Gallery), and I have to say that I hate used game sales. I probably don’t hate them as much as David Ellis, but I hate them enough to where I usually try to push new game sales to the customer.
Also, your last episode on Music and Game Music was great and any listeners who would like a similar podcast should check out “The Amplified Gamers” which is co-hosted by Trickman Terry, former writer for EGM.
Oh yeah, I forgot:
1) Flash
2) Glare
3) Double Slap
Not moves but:
1. Pi-
2. -ka-
3. -CHHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. focus energy
2. flail
3. frustration
In regards to the cutbacks I think we are going to see less new games and original ideas from the big companies. I don’t think we are going to get the Dead Space’s and Mirrors Edge’s this year because the big publishers are going to go with products that are sure sellers like Rock Band and Guitar Hero, things that are “exploitable.” I do believe however, this is the chance for smaller indie developers to bring their products to the forefront and we can possibly see some really cool things.
As for my finances as a gamer? As a member of the hardcore market, someone who owns all three systems, I am going to buy games even if I really can’t afford it. But I think that portion of the market is what is going to get the industry through this current economic situation. Don’t get me wrong, I love Peggle, but I think the casual audience and families that just have the Wii are going to abandon the games market because in tough economic times, usually the first things go to are luxury entertainment like video games.
I think the more retailers that adopt the practice of buying and selling used games, the more publishers will flock to the digital distribution methods like STEAM. Not only do they not have to worry about their product being re-sold without any profit, they have anti-piracy tools as well.
Oh, and in regards to the PokeSex:
1)Hypnosis
2)Giga Impact
3)Teleport
Trade-in value just isn’t high enough, nor is the discount on used games large enough, for me to consider the whole Gamestop proposition. I buy new, and I keep what I buy. It’s worth more to me to have an ever-growing collection of games, in their original packaging, and to know I’m supporting the publishers and developers, than to save a couple bucks by trading or buying used. I doubt Amazon’s system will change my mind.
Used Games: This is a symptom of three things.
1) Game stop wants to make lots of money
2)Games at retail are probably a bit too expensive
3)The type of games being made are mostly consumable one shot single-player experiences, lasting shorter and shorter amounts of time. These games rarely cater to the medium’s strong suit.
If game developers want to stop the used game market, they need to do one of three things : Lobby to outlaw the resale of games, go to downloadable, or make games that people don’t want to trade in.
That all makes me sound like a capitalist pig, so to balance it out : socialize medicine permanently, socialize the banks permanently, and Philip’s Glasses are at total flaunting of his bourgeois aspirations.
Shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks will eventually result in a smaller selection for consumers, but it will still take a while for this to trickle down to gamers as a whole. It has only been about 6 months since the world realized that the economic shit had hit the fan; not enough time has passed for the inevitable Title delays and cancellations to really affect our choice at the retail counter.
Given the long lead time on game development, especially for big-budget titles, gamers probably won’t see a noticeable reduction in choice until November/December 2009 at the earliest. 2010 will be when we really start noticing a difference compared to previous years.
I’m hopeful that budget restrictions will lead to the 360 and PS3 seeing more experimentation in the download-only space. I wonder how many industry executives are looking at titles that were meant to be full retail games, which are currently 50-75% through production, and wondering if it might be worth it to:
-halt content development (levels, modes, characters, tacked-on multiplayer)
-cancel or heavily scale-down the big ad campaign
-take the packaging and distribution budget and give it to the development team so they can polish up the content that’s finished to a point that it is playable
-release it on Live/PSN/Steam as a 8-12 hour game for $15-20 (like Watchmen or Lost&Damned)
-see how it sells, and if it does well then resume development on the previously halted content for release as DLC
What do I think about used games? I think it’s brought up too damn much and really isn’t that interesting. I also hate nuns and babies, especially ethnic ones. Nuns, that is. I’m not racist.
This is going to be another long comment, gentlemen. I apologize in advance.
Regarding the whole EA vs. Activision thing, it’s apparent that the respective CEOs of the mega-publishers — John Riccitiello and Bobby Kotick — have very different visions for their corporations. Sure, everybody wants to make money in the end, but it’s how you go about doing it that endears you to gaming enthusiasts (or causes them to despise you).
Riccitiello has gone so far as to come out and admit EA’s past transgressions (like at DICE 2008, when he denounced the “buy and assimilate” model regarding their prior consolidation of studios). Since he took the company’s reins in early 2007, there’s been a marked change in the kinds of games they’ve published, as well as the strategies they’ve employed. This is a company that used to be vilified, but they’ve taken chances on such new IPs as Dead Space, Mirror’s Edge, and Henry Hatsworth in the Puzzling Adventure.
This attitude has also manifested itself in the renaissance of sorts that EA Sports has undergone under the aegis (not aegies, haha) of President Peter Moore. EA Sports’ developers have engaged gamers in all kinds of ways, such as the new Inside EA Sports blog. They’ve also given prominent community sites unprecedented access to the development of their games, so they can take feedback directly from the hardest of the hardcore gamers and implement it into their games to give their fans what they truly want.
On the other side, you have Activision, where CEO Bobby Kotick literally said last November that the publisher wasn’t interested in games that “don’t have the potential to be exploited every year on every platform with clear sequel potential and have the potential to become $100 million dollar franchises.” Are you effing kidding me?! And it figures that Kotick’s a cold, calculating suit who prioritizes monetary gain over, well, pretty much everything else. After all, Activision’s going to release somewhere between 24 and 26 new Guitar Hero SKUs in 2009.
Unfortunately, EA may be forced to swallow a bitter pill and take after Activision, since the latter company is one of the few in the video game industry that managed to turn a profit last year. The economy won’t have much of an impact on me personally, since I’ve been broke for quite a while and I don’t really have all that much money to spend on games anyway. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all if EA started to look for franchises/IPs that are easier to monetize, especially since 2008′s strategy of publishing new, innovative games didn’t exactly pay off for them. Of course, it might help if they follow some obvious advice and space out their releases this year, instead of just cramming everything into the traditional September–December gaming glut. We’ll see.
I do tend to dislike the game trading industry because it hurts sales for games, but I don’t exactly make very much money and it’s nice to be able to trade in an old game to be able to buy a new one, or buy an older used game for cheap. If I had the money to do it I’d always buy new, but that just isn’t in the cards at the moment. Also, it’s nice to be able to have the option to buy an old hard to find game used. How would the Rebel FM game club survive without a used game service?
I believe that “Toss the old man in the tub” from the board game Mouse Trap should become a euphemism referring to sex.
“How’d that date with Laura go?”
“Well, let’s just say I tossed the old man in the tub.”
“NOICE!”
*High five*
Please start to use this.
What are your thoughts on used games?
While it is true that Game Developers see 0% of the profits from re-sales, it is important to remember that they can still benefit from the fact that more people are playing their game. If they’ve made a good game, then they benefit from word-of-mouth advertising.
Say I go to a used bookstore and take a low-cost chance on a book by an Author I’ve heard about, but I don’t have enough experience with their work to consider buying new. If the used book is a waste of my time, then I won’t buy any more books written by that Author. But, if I like what I read, I’m going to buy more books from that Author. If I really like what I read, then when their next book comes out I’ll have already pre-ordered it on Amazon. I’ll also tell all my friends about it, and I will be less likely to sell my copy. It almost becomes a trophy on my shelf: “I grabbed that on a whim, and it was amazing. Want to borrow it?”
Consistently make good products, and people will pay their hard-earned money for you to keep making good products. And they’ll advertise your work to their friends for free.
I don’t see a lot of used copies of Burnout Paradise sitting on the shelf at the EB where I work. Criterion gives consumers (not just gamers) a reason to keep playing their game a year later. If developers are abandoning their games after launch, why shouldn’t we?
Used game sales serve gamers in a positive way as well. How many of you listeners had to buy used copies of “Shadow Of The Colossus” or “Indigo Prophecy”? Used games are good for YOU. If this is such a serious threat to the games industry could you guys please explain to me why no one is doing anything about it?
Are we talking about the same EA that intends I buy yet another version of Rock Band this year? I really don’t understand where all this praise for EA is coming from. Nothing has changed. They’re just gathering some new IP’s so they can milk’em later. Dead Space 3 is gonna be awesome!
I think it’s way too early to say what this economy will do for publishers/developers. I feel like Midway had it coming to them. When MK V.S. DC is your big holiday title, clearly you’re in trouble. As a college student, my spending is always tight. So far the economy hasn’t really changed that for better or worse.
1. I think its great that EA have essentialy grown up as a publisher only going for good stuff i meann this years Fifa was brill and with some great new IP’s one day they could be one of my fav’s but Acto an now soulless
2. I have a really bad feeling that were gonna get a lot more’sure things’ like film tie ins and well Acto’s regurgition of formaly good titles
3. The main thing (in my view) is that i buy games that i would never buy, for exmple i don’t really like FPS, there kinda fun for a bit but i get bored and if i pay £40/$60 on it im pissed so i only get a second hand one like a year after it comes out for like a quarter of the price.
The next area of this is that i buy games that im not sure on and if i love it ill buy the next one new, my e.g is Mass Effect i got it second hand loved it and i will now buy Mass Effect 2 the day it comes out.
So i think that publishers need to lay off it a bit as it prob makes as much money as it loses.
Have a nice day, you do a great job keeps me entertained while i go on my daily run, makes it go quick
$. Sonic Boom is all you nees
has a games box art ever influenced your purchase?
Actually, one game that I remember buying on a whim from looking at the box alone was “The Legend of Dragoon” for the PS1. I saw later on that it didn’t get the best of review scores but I had a lot of fun playing that game.
About used games sales: I think we’ll find a shift to the Steam system of installing games. You can install it once, play it wherever you want, but you can never sell it again. Of course, this only works for PC games, Xbox and Playstation will just have to cope until they can come up with a system that is just as effective in reducing used game sales.
About EA and Activision: I’m afraid that after failing to create two new popular IP’s (being the absolutely amazing Dead Space and the not-so-well-received Mirror’s Edge), EA will be back on the obvious sequel bandwagon in no time. I’m afraid they can’t keep pumping money in new projects, stockholders won’t allow it. It’s a shame though, Dead Space was probably my favorite game of last year…
About the economic crisis and us, gamers: I lost my job quite recently and have been looking for work ever since. Because finding a job in my field of interest is a slow process, this still leaves me with plenty of time to play games. I’m buying more games then ever before, but all of these are second hand (craigslist/ebay), I simply cannot justify spending 50-70 euro’s on new games, when I have no income to speak of. And hey…. we all have a pile of shame to work through right?
About pokemon: I haven’t a clue.. Dick I choose you? Spam piercing strike and use your water ability cause she’s vulnerable to it?
In response to the argument that the used game problem comes from developers not making games you want to continue playing, I would say that some, if not many games don’t lend themselves to that sort of play. In games that have an intense narrative experience, I find myself not wanting to continue playing them again and again because it functions as such a contained package of art that I experience then move on. Sure I might play it some ways down the road for nostalgia, but there are a great many people who won’t, and to them it’s just a box taking up space that they can turn into money at the nearest Gamestop. Not to say that used games are good, it’s not an aspect of the industry that I choose to support, but there are a lot more complex reasons than just blindly blaming the developers for not making a good game.
Digital distribution for a better future!
I think its great that EA has finally decided to release new IPs and help to infuse some new ideas into video games. On the other hand, I am disgusted at the fact that Activision has decided to “Pull an EA”® (patent pending) and annualize titles year after year with little improvement. Five “Hero” games in one year? Giving us a so-so COD every two years? Ditching Ghost Busters? Come on.
I don’t even feel about speaking about the economy so MY MOVES ARE:
1. YAWN
2. STUN SPORE
3. HYPER BEAM
EA/Activision: I remember hating EA just a few years ago, and there was good reason. They were trying to drive Sega out of the sports game market with exclusive contracts while their games were inferior to the 2K sports series. That was really the one thing they did that drew my ire. Activision, so far as I know, isn’t doing anything evil. They have just become complacent in releasing rehash after rehash of the same two or three titles. They will never take EA’s place in my mind just by being stupid and lazy.
Economy: I hope we will see more downloadable content released for existing games, but since this will never have the reach of a boxed title on the shelves at Wal-mart, I suspect we will see more movie licenses and sequels. Safer releases. So far, I haven’t been lucky to avoid being personally affected much by the economy. Of course, if the shit hits the fan, games will get cut out before utilities, food, the mortgage, and Internet access, but that’s about it.
Used games: I don’t have a problem with used games. I think developers need to tap into this market with DLC. The more extreme measures I’ve heard (selling the game ending separately as DLC) sicken me, but I could see a player buying Burnout Paradise and spending $20 or so on some of the currently available DLC. The used market will not go away. Developers and publishers need to find ways to add value to these used purchases to drive more revenue.
I personally have no problem buying used games. I would always buy new if I could, but, for me, the choices are to buy used games or not to game. The latter is simply not an option.
I don’t pokemon, I pokewomon.
pokemon sex life move list:
Horn Attack
Hydro Pump
Defense Curl
your welcome
Question 1: Actually EA is the new Ubisoft, which is the new Activision, which is the new EA.
Question 2: Fewer games coming out, more marketing behind them.
Question 3: People buy and sell used games as much as they do because games are expensive. Developers and publishers don’t seem to be able to change that (or interested, even), so this will continue to be a problem until digital distribution takes over.
quick attack
discharge
frustration
Focus energy, growth. On a more seriou note, I honestly don’t want activision to succeed; this whole guitar hero on tour (or was it world tour?) thing has really put a sour taste in my mouth. The difference between ea and activision is ea consists mostly of original ip’s, whereas activision takes the scraps of old ip’s from another developer and then directly competes with them rather than sticking with the series’ roots; if activision drove harmnix out of business would the gaming community really be ok with only the competitors? To be fair…I’m being very unfair. Call of duty is a great series and at the moment the quality seems to be remaining high, however the one a year idea could make each iteration a lot less special. I think things should stay exactly as they are, da continue making great games (SKATE, dead space, mirrors edge, army of two 2 could be great), and activision if you hire some new teams to make new games maybe I’ll turn around, or perhaps you could stop making every year iterations and use new ip’s to fill in the gaps. All I know is in the past year I’ve played through 3 ea games and bought 0 activision games, not out of spite…I just wasn’t interested. Why should I support a company when they seem to screw the gamer around every corner?
Sorry that was only two, what I meant was focus energy, growth, bodyslam.
attract
enrage
splash attack
For me, used games represent a way to continue playing games while keeping my wife ok with my hobby. It’s pretty tough to justify spending $70 every time I want a game when we’ve got a mortgage and kids to worry about. I still buy a fair number of new games, but if there is nothing compelling to add to replay, I sell it an move on.
Also, I’m not a big fan of Eb Games and I use a local independant game shop to trade my games for much higher value.
Phil
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Endure
Endure
Explosion
Just a comment/question?
I think EA was very good about taking chances by building new IP with Mirror’s Edge and Dead Space, although they didn’t sell tons, and probably caused EA to take a loss, I think everyone is forgetting that EA got fucked by Warner Bros. The delay of Harry Potter & The Half Blood Prince royally screwed their fourth quarter. Surely they would have posted a profit. I just feel like the industry poking fun at EA for taking chances and not being super successful with it.
(Or i could be wrong and the factored in the harry potter delay in their financials beforehand…)
I’d honestly place Gamestop and Activision in the same category, as what used to be appealing companies who had my best interests in mind slowly decayed into virtually the complete opposite category. Although what they’re doing seems ultimately piss poor for us, it is working right? In this terrible economy those two are one of very very few who are somehow turning a profit. As a company it is there job to make money so as not to have to fire and lay off personal like so many other companies, EA included. As an educated consumer, I just choose not to buy Activision games(Blizzard excluded I guess), and I choose not to shop at gamestop. They have their employees best interests in mind, which I respect, however as a hardcore gamer I have no shed of respect for what they are doing. Mainly because I only show respect to those who respect me, and bastardizing franchises, asking if I want to buy a strategy guide 800 times, and gutting new games are not showing me as a consumer any respect whatsoever.
As a final comment, these two companies are only going to survive as long as the economy sucks, maybe even before that. I predict people will slowly stop buying Activision franchises as I know a lot of people are getting saturated on them, and with other (and arguable better) companies jumping into the used games market, I can’t imagine Gamestop will be able to be king of the hill much longer. I honestly don’t want to see either company go bankrupt or crash and burn, because so many people would lose their jobs if it did. They just really need an educational backhand to the head to wake them the fuck up and stop treating people like shit, because that business model shouldn’t work in the real world, and it’s kind of irritating that they keep proving me wrong.
have any of you guys played a free indie game called “music catch 2″ on kongregate? seems right up your alley, especially for the Games is art argument!
What activision is doing is great.
the shrinking budgets will make developers focus on what they know will make them money with less original ips coming out but the few that do will be great.
Used games are great when the economy is in as bad a shape as it is, people just dont have the money to go out and spend 60$ on a game that they can get used for 40$
And as for my sex life in 3 pokemon moves-wish, then lucky chant(when im so close), finishing with skull bash(she slaps me in the face for makin a move)
Back before GTA4 was released, and EA was making bids for Take Two, I was up in arms. I saw EA as this huge giant company that just took old, good developers and forced them to rehash the same game to no ends, just for a quick buck. But looking back upon it now, I would be perfectly fine with Take Two going to EA. I have the confidence in EA now that they are at least trying to make good games. I mean look at all the sports games this year, excluding NBA Live. They were all great, especially Madden, Fifa and NHL. And they are now trying to make original games, something that this industry needs like Mirrors Edge(Like this as much as Arthur did), Dead Space, Army of Two, and many others. I believe that this happened because of the backlash from many people as they began to see the EA label on the game and steered away from it, but also with the new leadership of the company being given to Ricatello, who focused on these new ideas of original games, and quality over quantity.
I also believe that Activision has taken the gamers illustrious crown, of total fucking douche bags, by realizing that they had two or three games that were really selling extraordinarily well, Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, and Tony Hawk, and they thought that if they make more of these games that they will make more money. This turned out to be right, but in the long run, I think we will see the same thing that happened to EA, happen to Activision, but I hope that one of my favorite, and first games I played, Call of Duty, does not die in the process.
As a long time Call of Duty fan, dating back to the original on the PC, my anger, and frustration with Activision and gamers everywhere is rising. I do not want to see a Call of Duty every year, and I do not want to see the series passed around to other developers like a dirty whore.
So for now, I raise my drink to EA, then smash it to the table, and stab the remaining, sharp, glass cup into Activision’s, and espeically Bobby Kotick’s black hearts.
-Dan G.
I think that Amazon and TRU coming in to the used market is good due to the fact that Gamestop essentially had a monopoly over the marked. As competition grows then it will balance out for both customers and companies involved.
Also:
Quick Attack
Splash
Rest
# What are your thoughts on the idea that Activision and EA have switched places, with Activision taking on the role of pariah amongst the more enthusiast gaming audience? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
While I certainly think better of EA than I did several years ago in the wake of the “EA wife” episode, I wonder if my positive attitude is a widely held opinion. When EA announced its recent layoffs and poor performance for games like Mirror’s Edge, there was quite a lot of schadenfreude in the comments and particular vitriol directed at John Ricitello as an out of touch, heavy handed CEO. For all the good they have done in reaching out to independent developers through their partners program and taking the risk on new IPs like Mirror’s Edge, a lot of enthusiasts seem reluctant to cut them any slack.
Activision’s reputation has sullied as EA’s has improved but I don’t think either, in so far as they large corporations, are rosy at the moment. While Ricitello has done a lot to improve EA’s stance among the enthusiast audience, Activision CEO Bobby Kotick’s statements about the importance of franchises/sequels, and frank discussion about the profit motive of his company, does not engender him to our audience. It’s as if we all forgot that the CEO’s primary responsibility is creating value for shareholders, and if they pursue other ends to the detriment of that, they are legally liable. Activision has also committed another grievous sin as of late: buying Blizzard. Many seem to think that Activision is corrupting Blizzard and point to announcements like the Starcraft II trilogy as evidence that Blizzard is becoming the same sort of extortionists they take Activision to be.
I personally view both EA and Activision-Blizzard in a positive light. They both have been responsible for growing the industry and raising the overall level of quality of games over the past few years. That they both have in large part relied on sequels/franchises to accomplish this seems to reflect an idiosyncracy of current development more than anything else. Developers are still recreating the wheel for every game and relying on outmoded strategies for producing assets that drives development costs into the tens of millions of dollars. Triple A development budgets demands triple A sales and until the industry can get past that we will see Madden 2010 and COD: Modern Warfare 2 for some time to come.
# How do you think shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks will affect games and gaming this year? How will finances affect you as a gamer in particular?
I doubt that industry cutbacks will significantly affect games this year. With development cycles of 2-3 years for most titles, the economic downturn of the last 12 months won’t really manifest itself for another 1-2 years. Then I think we will see fewer middling games from fewer publishers, a comparatively higher number of smaller, indie titles and as many if not more big budget titles. At least on the PC side there is a huge trend towards smaller, casual MMOs based on either low subscription or microtransaction payment structure.
Personally, I don’t buy many games and play primarily MMOs. I find my subscriptions to be good value for money and I don’t see myself stopping them out of financial considerations.
Regarding used games, I personally don’t buy them because I want to support the artists directly through royalties whenever possible. Having said that, I think used game sales have been a vehicle for innovation on the part of publishers, who have to work a lot harder to make sure that you don’t trade your games in. The classic example of this, I think, is Burnout Paradise – that game is totally different now after the huge number of free updates, and anyone who got rid of it early on missed out on a lot. I think that’s the right way for publishers to approach this “problem” – incentivise holding onto games and aggressively support them after release.
A lot of people like used games because older titles generally aren’t available new. I understand that argument, but it occurs to me that publishers are missing out on an opportunity. Games like Ico, which are excellent but exceedingly hard to find, would be well-served by a re-release through digital distribution. There’s a precedent now for releasing full games for download via PSN and, obviously, Steam, but I think publishers could go farther by making sure that their digital library is both vast and affordably priced.
Fissure
Hypnosis
Doubleslap
-Despite it’s popularity, you gotta admit that Blizzard is the main reason that Activision garnered that position as public enemy(?) number one. When you have more players playing your games, and they play everything safe, it means that they’re going to be scrutinized more. The saying has always been it’s lonely at the top. EA also made a point of showing that risks were being taken, and that losses were being accepted for those risks. I think that alone gained them some credit in 2008.
And finally:
cute charm
limber
TORRENT
-I’m going to try to NOT cutback on my spending on games this year. Maybe it’s misplaced, but I think that game companies need my support more than ever. I also don’t think my hobby is that expensive in the first place. Maybe Kutaragi was right; I would get a second job to afford video games.
-But used games? I’m gald that there is now a little more mainstream competition, but it’s too little, too late. I mean look: EB Games was bought out by GameStop. Until that point they were the two biggest retailers of used games. And now they are one. The database that the company maintains changes buy-back and sales prices on the fly, and this agility in that market is a huge advantage over Amazon and TRU. Plus, like GameStop’s CEO said this week, gamers are looking for instant gratification. Gamestop provides that. And while those who read enthusiast blogs and press understand that the margin GameStop makes on every game they buy then sell used is L-A-R-G-E, the average consumer doesn’t give a shit. They want to trade for the 1 copy of Madden they buy in a year by selling back all of the stuff they got at Xmas and didn’t play. Plus Amazon is not even doing this directly, and when it fails the third-party they are partnered with will be dropped like a bad habit.
From the way I see it, Activision has never really been like what EA has been for the past year. Putting out games that enthusiast gamers, like myself, at least admire fondly. I myself didn’t like Mirror’s Edge, but that was for personal taste an some other problems I won’t get into.
I will never purchase a 60$ game ever, I did buy Little Big Planet at 60$, but I realized after that, that I can’t get myself to pay that much for a game without holding my breath when I swipe my card, much like when I purchase gas. Game Stop will do fine for me.
(oh, and this segways to the next question… nice.)
Game Stop sucks, I’ll never buy a brand new game there, I like taking off shrink-wrap. the fact that they buy used copies of games that came out two days before, there is no difference to buying a used game and a new game at that point. I’m interested to see where Toys R’ Us goes with what they are trying, but I bet someone will find exploits fast, much like what my friends did with Walmart and the Circuit City closing, they bought a brand new game from Circuit City for 35$, it wasn’t the game they wanted, they went to Walmart and returned the game and got a full 60$ store credit, and then found the game they wanted.
Wood Hammer
Bullet Seed
Stun Spore
“How do you think shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks will affect games and gaming this year?”
*** EXPECT more buggy & unfinished programs ***
Just look at the recent fiasco with GTA IV on the PC which basically didn’t run properly. What about Far Cry 2 that freezes once you reach 62% completion and ubisoft still has released no patches to make it work 5 months later. What about Tomb Raider Underworld which wasn’t finished, rushed out, and now Eidos expects people to pay an extra $20 for the levels that weren’t finished in the retail version.
This is a really bad trend and customers are powerless to do anything (because basically retail chains & publishers refuse to take responsibility for the products they sell).It would still be bad, but the blow wouldn’t be so terrible if games cost $10, but at $60-$80 per title, I think the companies are abusing their customers.
Amidst all of that, the publishers have the audacity to complain that people prefer buying their buggy/unfinished games, second hand, at Gamestop. And this isn’t an isolated case: it has happened to too many high profile titles, from companies one would expect wouldn’t do such things.
I suspect that this will continue in 2009 because companies are more interested in maximizing profits and pleasing investors than customer satisfaction or customer support. With the economy taking a down turn, game publishers will have even more pressure to maximize profits and please investors and it is ultimately the customer who will suffer in the process.
[EA/ACTIVISION] – I think there will always be an EA games in the industry. EA had a bad reputation there for a few years and it seems like they eventually turned things around for the most part. Now it’s Activision’s turn.
[CUTBACKS AND GAMING] – How will finances effect me? I’m lucky to still have my job, although my salary has been frozen. I’m a gamer. I’ll make cuts elsewhere before I make cuts in my gaming budget. But I suspect I’ll be buying more used games this year and not buying all the big-name games on launch day. Except RE5. And God of War 3. Ah fuck it.
As for the actual gaming industry, I think with cutbacks and shrinking budgets we’ll see more episodic games and DLC. Until the economy settles down, I don’t think we’ll see many Killzone 2 type games that have been developed over the course of 4 years with expensive budgets.
[Used Games] – Gamestop’s pricing on used newer games is a joke. Why pay $55 for a used game when you can spend $5 more on a brand new one? I understand that they have to make a profit on used games, but come on. They are worse than car dealerships. I won’t even go to gamestop for new games unless I can’t find it anywhere else. I haven’t tried Toys R’ Us or Amazon for used games yet, but I’m all for it. More competition = better deals for me, the consumer. For now, I think I’ll stick with ebay for newer used games, and gamestop for picking up those last gen gems that I missed out on.
I think I’ll steer clear of that last question, but here are my thoughts on the other three.
Regarding EA/Activision, I think that Activision has certainly claimed EA’s former position as the most derided publisher in my book. One need only look at the rate at which they churn out Guitar Hero titles as evidence of why. That said, I think a lot of the enthusiast community has yet to forgive EA for their past sins. And slip ups, like EA’s DRM policy on the PC, are not helping them to ingratiate themselves with people. They’re making headway by putting out quality new IP’s, like Dead Space, but that’s only part of the solution to what ails them. EA needs to find a good balance between keeping their lineup fresh with new IP’s, following through with turning good IP’s into franchises, and maintaining good customer relations.
The financial downturn certainly is concerning. However, I’m already a rather thrifty gamer, and rarely pay the launch retail price for games. In terms of entertainment, I often spend much less on games than other media, and get more entertainment out of them. So while I can see myself cutting back on some spending, games are pretty far down that list in terms of how much I gain by cutting back on them.
On the subject of used games, I personally feel that gamers have right of first sale with all physical copies that they legally purchase. That said, I also feel that game publishers are well within their rights to create products that cannot be resold, such as digital downloads. However, I think that game companies are overestimating how much they have to gain through their current crackdown on used games. What they’re leaving out is that anyone who sells a game likely considered the value of the ability to sell it when they purchased the game in the first place. By removing the ability to resell games, they are decreasing the retail value of their games to many people. They may rack up more sales by cutting out the used games market, but gamers aren’t going to start spending more money on games simply because publishers want them to. In short, if publishers want to cut out the used game market that’s their choice, but I think they’ll find that their games aren’t worth quite as much as they thought they were.
They took my pokemon moves suggestion, awesome.
Anyways:
Harden
Hyper Beam
Flee
Vicegrip
Arm Thrust
Bullet Seed
Only really have comments on used games.
There are both positives and negatives. It bugs the hell out of me that Gamestop pushes their used copies so much, especially when they only cost $5 less. That’s not much of a deal for me, but I still gladly give them my business if it is convenient for me, or they are the only place I can find the game (Retro Game Challenge) and I don’t seem to have the problem of always getting the display cases…and if I ever do, I say screw it, there are two more Gamestops I can go to if nothing else, although one of these days I should see if I can get them to sell me said game cheaper.
At the same time, I love that the developers are looking into ways to make us not sell games. Outside of sports games, I’ve made it a habit to not sell my games, simply because it isn’t worth it. I’m so glad that Criterion has given me reasons to pick up Burnout Paradise again even though I hadn’t played it for a couple of months, I was actually motivated to actually find all of the jumps, shortcuts, and billboards! Maybe when they get the island out I’ll be motivated to finish all the events, I only have 30-something left to go.
I am afraid of used games becoming the norm, because I feel it could cause this downward spiral that could force the industry into another crash…although I that might be a little bit of an extreme worst case scenario. At the same time, I would like to see the market become more competitive, if only so people can actually get decent trade in value.
With shrinking budgets we’re just gonna see shitty, unfinished games put on the shelves. In a perfect world, companies would see how much less they have for game development and work around it in creative ways. Not gonna happen.
For me, I haven’t purchased too many new games in the last few months, and it looks like it’ll have to stay that way for awhile. The used game market is looking more and more attractive.
Oh and:
Harden
Seismic Toss
Sleep Powder
Used Games are the only way to get certain games out there. But its when you hear about peolpe only spending about $50 a year because the trade the new games in for the next new game the minute there done that screws the industry. Burnout paradise keeps you coming back halo with its maps keeps you coming back, its when games dont plan for lomg trem suport for the game is when they get traded in. Look at cod I think the next one should come out this year and then no more for about 2 years they still have people palying 4 the should really make a long term plan and make more money and a bigger fan base.
I was hoping you would get to this.
I loved Guitar Hero when it first came out, but once Harmonix left and that Activision picked it up I thought to myself “this will just be another Tony Hawk series, nothing new”.
EA was my favorite dev last year becuase they tried new things instead of putting out the same Madden. I loved Mirror’s Edge, I loved Dead Space. And I’m glad to hear that they are going to keep making new IP’s. IMO you need a good steady line of older games coming out every year to make this new IP’s. People will still buy Madden, but that means they will be able to make more IP’s.
Plus I laughed at the Activison guy giving EA shit for for making new IPs.
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I’m not the largest fan of used games. I mean I know in these troubled times you can’t pay 60 for a brand new one. Or even much older games were new ones aren’t being made.
I mostly use Amazon to buy my games, but sometimes the older ones(PS, N64, SNES) I go to my local mum and pop shop because they are the only place(besides Ebay, I’m not paying and insane amount of money for something I can get for 10 bucks) that sells them.
Plus I love owning my own copy. To me having a used game feels different because a good amount of people could have owned it and scracthed it.
I just like having something that is mine and only mine.
The recession did not affect me, however my fiancee did lose her job but somehow it didn’t affect my buying habits. I love gaming and I’ll admit that in the past I’ve pirated games but the truth is I just couldn’t afford it and wanted to play the games. In recent years though I’ve been buying games, more so on PC then console but I do have a PS3 and Wii. Also there are games I’ve bought mostly to support the developers. What I love about PC though is the ease it is to get new games with services like steam and Impulse, they have made me buy more games since if I thought about it I never would have went to the store for half the games that I currently own.
I almost never go to gamestop, I live in NYC and there are lots of shops that sell games if I need it immediately, also I have an Amazon prime account and I tend to just order stuff from there instead of going to the store. That being the case I almost never buy used games and primarily this is to support the developers since when I do buy a game that means I really love the game or at least want to support the people making it so they’ll make more games. I see nothing with used games, the arguments can go either way but the truth is that a lot of people would not game anywhere near as much as they do if they could not buy used games. When people start buying less and less games they fall out of the scene and eventually I believe they’ll stop buying the few games they could afford before.
I have never had a good experience buying used games. I’ve tried going through the big chains like Gamestop, and the local smaller chains like Game X-change. Every time I go to look at the games, the disks are in poor condition and the boxes/cases are in really terrible condition. I would hope that there would be a better alternative, and maybe more compitition in the area of used game sales will up the overall product they’re trying to re-sell. I don’t think that it could hurt to any degree if large scale businesses like Best Buy, and the uber retailer that is Amazon to join in. I think that when it comes to this arena there need to be more players.
I’m not opposed to the sale of used games. Every other form of media has survived the sale of used copies.
What does bother me about the used games racket is that players who sell their games to Game Stop or Amazon or Toys R Us get a small fraction of what the game is worth.
That’s why I prefer game trading services (Goozex especially) because I when users trade a game in they receive that games full present value in return.
I just hate being offered $5 for a game from a retailer that I know will turn around and sell it again for $20. I’m no economist, but that seems a to be just a tad more than a reasonably profitable markup.
Also, I’ve noticed that DLC makes me much more likely to hold onto a game instead of trading it in. Developers and publishers could use DLC to “combat” trade ins, but I then I fear we might see more games like Tomb Raider: Underworld or Prince of Persia that are essentially incomplete games with the last bits sold as DLC.
Thanks, great show, love it!
People have mentioned a whole bunch of times that Activision was one of the few profitable game companies last year, but that’s simply not true. They posted a loss of $107 million for 2008. See: http://www.gametradejournal.com/2009/02/merger-charges-hurt-activisions-bottom.html
Hey guys,
I was wondering how you see your site (and yourselves) in comparison to the other video game websites/podcasts out there, such as giant bomb, kotaku, 1up, nuclearGeek, etc?
It is funny that publishers try to make buying used games a moral issue and then try to sell us a collector’s edition for 10 dollars more. Doesn’t a collector’s edition imply that the game in worth more to a collector when it is being resold?
I want the game companies of the games I love to be successful, if they believe focusing on the casual or hardcore is better for bottomline then that is how the cards fall. We must remember when EA embraced the hardcore they lost touch with madden and did not sell those hardcore games very well.
I am one of the folks that does not see the big deal in used games. I think another user on the board pointed out that used sales have not affected industries such as the movie industry.
Even though going to school in Canada has rendered me somewhat immune to the economic situation (government still gives me money to ‘excel my education’) I find that the idea of used games being a more prominent form of purchasing is a promising idea.
I hate to touch on the student subject again, but $60 for a new game just doesn’t cut into the budget too often except for highly anticipated releases (Killzone 2, LBP, etc.). The idea of having an option of picking something up at, say, a $30 or $40 price tag used is a lot more appealing for someone who wants to try the game out, but cannot bear the risk of blowing $60 on a paper weight. Some might say those $20-$30 savings don’t make a difference, but from the eyes of a student… that shit adds up, man!
However… there are definite counter-points. I am also one of those folks that fancy the idea of supporting developers who’s work you appreciate. I am a sucker that will always buy Madden/NHL, FFwhatever, etc. because I appreciate those developer’s work. So, if used games sales skyrocket… this is in a way troubling because it feels like you’re back-dooring a company that you care about which is not cool.
Definitely a topic that we will see garner more attention in the upcoming months. It’s tough to pick a side per se, with both viewpoints having critical factors to weigh in.
Great podcast, guys. Its one of 3 that I really look forward to and listen to each week! As far as used games go, I know that I will always go to the place that is closest to me. Some other people will go wherever they get more money for a game, but some people will go somewhere just because it’s convenient. To be honest, I don’t think there’s a big enough difference in the amount returned/credited to make me want to drive further. I am not loyal to one place over another. I go wherever is convenient. Most of the time, it’s GameStop. I’ve never had a problem there and I feel like they are good at what they do. BUT, I do feel they do, and will do the used game segment better than larger companies. This is because they focus on one thing so they can do it right.
As far as the larger stores, i.e. Toys R Us, Best Buy, Amazon, etc, I feel like they do a lot of stuff so they can’t just focus on video games. It’s kind of like buying healthy food from McDonalds… it just doesn’t feel right or seem to fit in there. (that’s what she said!) So, buying/selling used video games at Best Buy, Toys R Us, etc, just doesn’t feel right or seem like a good idea to me. I’m pretty sure the bigwigs at these companies just see how successful GameStop (and other video game only stores) are at dealing with used games and think it’s easy and there’s lots of money involved. I don’t think they thought it through, though.
As far as Amazon goes, I don’t think I have the patience to wait for my game to be mailed there then to get the credit. If I want to trade a game in, the money/credit is always put toward another game and I want to play that game right away. I don’t want to have to wait weeks for it. By that time I will have found something else I want to play. Again, it’s all about the convenience.
Lastly, I think the economy will affect the video game market. First, I think fewer games will be released. I think that the companies that make these games will be a little more careful about the games they release. Second, they will improve the quality of the games so more people will want them and sales will last longer. They will want to make that one game that stands out for years to come. If they just release fewer games with less quality, they are pretty much bending over and waiting for the next company to come and stick it to them, then ask them to leave the next morning.
Sorry for such a long comment. Have fun with the podcast, I can’t wait to hear it!
RE: Used Games
I am on the fence about used games. While I prefer to buy new and support the individuals making and publishing the game, there comes a point when a game is almost impossible to find new. At that point I start looking for copies on eBay or in the used bin at Gamestop.
However, I don’t understand people that will pay $5 less for a used copy of an almost new game. Especially if you are buying over eBay, it would become a huge hassle if the game doesn’t work right.
Finally, I certainly don’t agree with the pirating of games. Most of the people who actually work on the game aren’t making a ton of money, and I want to support them rather than just simply play the game.
I’m hoping direct downloads of games will perhaps be a way through these waters. While a downloaded game has no value in trad in, if it is priced much cheaper because the developer was able to direct release it with no publisher overhead, than that would be the best of all worlds to me.
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The problem with brick and mortar used game shops like Gamestop is that not only are the publishers and developers losing out, but so are we. The amount of money we receive for a trade-in is absurdly low and the price they then sell it at is ridiculous; a five dollar difference, what the hell?
What we need to do, as a gaming community, is find a way to rally behind eBay or some other trade focused website. If we begin to sell and trade amongst ourselves, at least we won’t get screwed: Gamestop buys for 32, sells for 55; user buys for 45, sells for 45. It just makes more sense…
Then again, I have never sold or traded a game in the 20 years I have been paying for them, and I only buy used games at the end of a console’s development cycle to get the rare stuff that mainstream audiences were not smart enough to hang onto.
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my three moves:
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While I suppose it might be true that Activision has become more of a pariah among gamers than EA over the past year or two… I actually think both companies have made some major steps to improve their products recently.
EA is concentrating on high quality games and new IPs… keeping them in development until they are truly ready. Look at the DeadSpace delays… and the fantastic final product. And Boomblox… that game is awesome!
Even Activision is giving teams like Treyarch enough time and resources to make high quality Call of Duty follow-ups on Infinity Ward’s year off.
With the exception of constant Guitar Hero releases, I think the huge budgets of current games are forcing both companies to deliver higher quality products. I can’t really complain.
Regarding the economy and gaming, I think the unfortunate reality is with shrinking budgets and industry cutbacks we’re going to see a lot less innovation, and a lot more shovel-ware. New IPs like Mirror’s Edge and Left 4 Dead are few and far between anyway, and now with companies facing budget problems and in some cases significant staff reductions, you’re going to see a lot less of that kind of innovation.
As far as personally, the troubled economy has driven me to search for new ways to get the games I want. I very rarely trade in stuff at EB/Gamestop, but I have been exploring things like Goozex and hitting the bargain bins pretty hard. There are a lot of great titles out there that I may have passed on at $60 and $50 that are now fairly affordable.
Regarding used games, I think a lot of people have touched on the main purpose for buying games used and that is the 60-70 price tag. I just cant justify spending that much money on a game that is usually structured to fit in the market once a year. If publishers do not want to listen to consumer demands, then why should I be obligated to pay full price on their game? As a business, you must adapt to the market and you absolutely most listen to your customers. The used game trend is exactly that, consumers reacting to the high price tag. Valve’s Gabe Newell is reacting to the change by creating not games but services while other publishers sit and complain about the direction of distribution. Who am going to I have more respect towards?
(answer: Valve)
Reg: EA/Activision
As much as I personally appreciate EA’s risk taking (investment in new IP) vs. Activision’s franchise-itis in 2008, if either strategies doesn’t pay off for share holders in the long run, management should face consequences. I’m not trolling, public companies need to serve their shareholders first. Gamers should find and support smaller developer/publishers that caters to their tastes rather than complaining about how a CEO spends shareholder money. Similarly, we need to continue to support independent gaming press like Eat-Sleep-Game, CO-OP, etc rather than wait for Viacom to create the perfect basic cable video game network.
Reg: Shrinking game budgets
Hopefully this means more downloadable content, which I think is a great deal in general, especially since single player game lengths have dwindled. It may create some hard decisions when it comes to porting games, which will mostly hurt PS3.
Reg: My game budget
I spend about $300-$400 on video games a year. Most of this is one big purchase (a new console, Rock Band, new video card, etc), only $100-$200 is spend on actual games or game content. I’m losing my job in July and don’t have anything else lined up yet, so I’ll skip a big purchase this year. I still won’t stoop to buying used games, so I’ll probably focus on bargain downloadable content, like the “Lost and the Damned”. Wait, did MicroSoft know about the meltdown in advance?
Reg: Used games
I usually don’t buy used games, mostly because they aren’t good deals. The discounts starts at around 10%, and by the time it becomes substantial (30% or better), the game is either a Greatest Hit, available NEW for 50%, or it is out of print, used is the ONLY option.
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1) to the company swap: I can’t say it really matters to me. Although I do pay attention to who produced my games I’ve never really bothered with the issues like this. If they make a game I like, I’ll buy it. It doesn’t matter to me what other dross they’ve produced.
2) Budgets. The AAA titles are not going to stop, so we don’t have to worry about them completely drying up, but there will probably be fewer. On the flip side, it is a lot cheaper for a publisher to pick up an already in production smaller title, indi produced or the like so there may very well be a lot of extra funding becoming available for the little guys. Furthermore, there is the online market. As funding drops, the online releases become all the more desirable.
3) The big argument in favor of used games has always been the comparison to used movies and used music. But this is flawed at a very basic level. To be precise, games don’t get a theatrical opening before they hit DVD/BluRay and game developers don’t go on tour. There is no alternate income on their product like other used materials do. That being said, I don’t mind used product for older games, but the line is hazy so I try to buy new as much as possible.
As for the new used game methods, well I’ve not sold a game in years so I’m probably not the best to talk, but selling back used games is all about convenience. Adding in the step of sending it to Amazon means reducing the used game trade in crowd to only those looking for the best deal. This, i am guessing, is a significantly smaller portion of the whole.
4) My love life in three pokemon attacks: Doom Desire, Double team, Confusion.
Thanks for a great show!
Fox
The saddest thing about Activision becoming a pariah is, I think, the hatred that spills over to upstanding companies like Blizzard. Five years ago, the announcement of three, full Starcraft games would have elicited euphoria. Now, it brings up cries of “sell out” and accusations of charging three times for a single game. (We once paid $40 for Brood War, didn’t we?)
EA/Activision
In every industry there’s a market leader and those who follow behind. If the same company leads for an extended period of time, people tend to start looking for reasons to hate it, be they justified or not. Another example of a company that has had this effect is Microsoft. This also applies to other things like countries (take your own as an example, no offence intended), music (Michael Jackson, among others) and various other areas.
Back to the subject at hand though, even though I do not like Activision’s strategy of sequelisation, they must’ve done something right to get in the position they are in right now. I am against those who try to ‘villanise’ those who lead, in this case Activision.
(QUESTION 2) On budgets: I think that we are going to see (metaphorically) the middle class disappear and upward class mobility temporarily cease to exist. The lower class will consist of indie games, portables, and anything that can be awesome without ten million dollars. Flash will explode.
As consumers get in the recession mindset they will become more risk-adverse than ever with games priced at $60 (anyone else still think that’s a shit ton of money?). I think that consumers are going to gravitate more strongly than ever to established franchises. This also may tie in to used games, but new releases will need to support the backend. What I mean by that is the biggest marketing pushes should be made when a game has been discounted, as disproportionately more people will be willing to drop $30 than $60. Games and companies that fail to recognize this change in consumer demand will go the way of the dodo. There needs to be a way for the money from discounted sales to get back to the developer and not straight into the pockets of the retail giants through used games.
I think that as the “hardcore/enthusiast” gamer has more access to information about the companies who produce the content they enjoy we’ve been offered an interesting glimpse “behind the curtain”. Once EA stopped buying and destroying great developers everyone turned their attentions on Activision. I think that EA becoming the number 2 player is the best thing that ever happened to them. Activision has been pretty slimy for the last decade. It’s good to see that EA has leadership that wants to use a balance of new titles and innovation as well as a stable of “milkables” in order to chase down the top spot again. Activision will do as it’s done forever and just milk everything they have for all it’s worth, drop things that don’t sell and chase down the newest cash cow.
Used games are a touchy thing… I used to live in a town that had a chain called Gamers. They gave more for trade-ins and sold for comparable prices to Gamestop. They also gave more trade in if you had the complete packaging and instructions. They also charged less for used games with no instructions or packaging. They also sold games from the NES era moving forward including handhelds NEO GEO Sega Nomads, everything… it was awesome. I HATE Gamestop, and hope that anyone that enters the used game market will be more like Gamers and more about the gamers and less about the gouging… I think that Toys R Us could be good, I feel like alot of people don’t know about the insane game specials they frequently run.
I think the used game market is a necessity in this economic environment. I’m surprised that it took the major retailers so long to jump on it (I’m guessing it was due to the logistics of maintaining a warehouse of crap games that no one really wants). However, Gamestop seems to have figured it out a long time ago and has been able to profit very well with used games. Especially in this climate, the razor thin margins of new game sales definitely looks a lot less lucrative than the greater profit margins and potentially huge market of gamers looking to save a dollar. What I’m actually surprised about is that GameFly hasn’t really pushed its used game sales more heavily.
What are the chances of Left4Dead coming to the PS3?